The Importance of Attunement in Our Assessments and Classrooms

With Fall 2020 beginning mid-pandemic, mid-protest and mid-election cycle, it's more important now than ever to invite culture to inform our pedagogy,  but doing it "right" can be daunting.  Join host Dr. Allison Case as she sits down with two thought leaders on the topics of cultural attunement and responsiveness, NYU's Michele Crespo-Fierro and UNT Dallas College of Law's Angela Downes as they discuss what cultural attunement is, what information and tools you have available to you right now, how to use them to know, honor and connect with your students, and to be encouraged that it's not just about getting it right but making the effort that matters.  Don't miss this powerful first episode of Pedagogo, Season 2. 

Show Notes and Resources

• View the infographic based on today's episode at examsoft.com/pedagogo
• Allison referenced Brené Brown's book, Dare to Lead, linked here: https://daretolead.brenebrown.com/
• Angela mentions the work of Gary Howard @ the Equity Institute. For more information: http://www.ghequityinstitute.com/index.html
• Angela references Harvard University's Project Implicit. You can find more information and tests here: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

Transcript

Joe Taucher (00:00):

Welcome to Season Two of Pedagogo, the show that brings education to your ears and metamastery to your assessments. Today's episode covers cultural attunement and how students, teachers, and staff can create an open and welcoming learning environment for all. Pedagogo, brought to you by ExamSoft. The assessment software that keeps security and integrity in your exams while providing you actionable data for your outcomes. For all of the toughest testing challenges, ExamSoft has you covered.

Allison Case (00:32):

Hey, Education Nation. Welcome back to the first episode of Pedagogo, season two. This season we're talking equity and enablement in our classrooms, in our assessments, and in all of education's communities. To kick off this powerful season, I'm joined today by Michele Crespo-Fierro, NYU Meyers College of Nursing Clinical Assistant Professor and Fellow of the New York Academy of Medicine and Angela Downes, Law Professor at UNT Dallas College of Law and Assistant Director of Experiential Education, to talk about cultural attunement in the classroom. If you're new to the idea of allowing culture to inform your teaching, you'll walk away with some great ways to get started today with incorporating culture in your classroom. If you're a seasoned pro, you'll enjoy hearing my guests dive deep into the work of attunement and advocacy, no matter who you are. I think you'll be surprised to learn how much of the process of understanding our students starts with understanding ourselves. I know I was. To start us off today, take a listen to my conversation with Michele. Michele, thank you so much for joining me today! To get us started, would you share with everyone a little bit about yourself?

Allison Case (01:38):

Thank you so much for her inviting me. And my name is Michele Crespo-Fierro. I am a Clinical Assistant Professor at NYU Meyers College of Nursing, and in that role, I teach in the undergraduate program and I'm also the Director of the Lead Honors Scholars Program for our traditional students. Some of the other things that I do, I currently serve as the President of the New York Chapter of the National Association of Hispanic Nurses. And I am a fellow of the New York Academy of Medicine.

Allison Case (02:23):

So, Michele, before we get too far into cultural attunement and its manifestations in the classroom, can you help me and our listeners understand what is culture? How can we define it and relate to it? I know we hear it discussed all the time.

Allison Case (02:28):

The beliefs, the attitudes and practices that are shared among groups and are also passed down from more experienced members of the group to newer members of the group. So elaborate practices, maybe different types of food, elaborate holidays. And actually we all have many cultures. So what are the customs that we grew up with? So that that's usually our first culture, the one that we grow up in with our families that we're born to or raised with. And, um, there are things that have special meaning whether it's tied to what country your family comes from, what religion you practice, or just something as simple as having a Sunday or Saturday tradition of pancakes and, or, you know, I'm going to have to say something for the sports people, you know, watching football every Sunday and everybody that comes over, those are customs and traditions and that's culture. So, that's like our first culture. And then when we get into school, all the things that we do in school, when we get into the workplace, there's the culture of being in that workplace. And then also anything else that we identify with, we may have different identities and there's a culture around that. So, everyone has culture. Some parts of our culture may be more prominent or more visible, but all of them determine who we are and they're always in action in some way, shape or form.

Allison Case (04:16):

So Michele, how can listeners begin to see or appreciate their own culture? Particularly if some of our listeners believe "I don't have a culture".

Allison Case (04:27):

Going back to what are those things that those activities or those beliefs or those customs that they feel define who they are. So, taking some time to reflect on, you know, what are those things that are really important to me? So, you know, knowing what those things are and the importance they hold for you is the beginning of imagining that there are comparable, um, activities or practices or beliefs that are important to someone else.

Allison Case (05:11):

Absolutely. Once we began to do that, work of identifying and understanding our own culture, how can we begin to see and understand the culture of others, particularly our students?

Allison Case (05:24):

Well, once we identify those, it then allows us to be more aware or to look for it more in the students that, that we're working with or the, our colleagues that we're working with. So, we become a little more attuned to our own culture, which then makes us better able to see culture in others and how it may express itself. I have an experience, and I know it's important to me and you have an experience that's important to you. Can you explain this to me?

Allison Case (06:03):

Wow. And really an awareness of self and then a curiosity, a genuine curiosity, of others are simple steps we can use. I love that.

Allison Case (06:12):

I was going to add that, asking the question in that way, opens the door for empathy, because you're looking to really connect with them and find that that common ground that may exist and also see where perhaps there isn't common ground and where you can say, I don't know, I haven't experienced that. Tell me more about it.

Allison Case (06:39):

Right. Michele, you just hit on my new favorite phrase. I'm reading Brene Brown's Dare to Lead.

Allison Case (06:44):

Great book.

Allison Case (06:46):

And in that book, such a great book, the phrase that just changed me from that book is being able to say to someone that hasn't been my experience. Can you tell me more about that? Yes. So Michele, how much of someone else's culture do I, as a faculty member need to understand before it can translate and show up in my classroom?

Michele Crespo-Fierro (07:13):

I don't think that there is any course that does not require some type of information about the culture of the students. I think that there are some courses perhaps where it's more critical, particularly if it's a course where you're not just, um, imparting knowledge, but you're also looking to socialize someone into the culture of that profession. You may need a little more information in that one, knowing more specifically, who were the students that take the course, collect some statistics, those only give you a place to start. You still need to do the work of asking the students who are in front of you about, um, those things that are important to them. Um, and, and how that fits in with their culture and how they see taking your course is part of that experience.

Allison Case (08:20):

Yes, because our culture is not immediately obvious.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (08:22):

Yeah. And so it may be that your students have checked certain boxes, but who they described themselves as, what they describe as important to them may be completely different or very layered and very nuanced.

Allison Case (08:40):

Now that we understand what culture is, its manifestations in our life and even the origins of culture in our lives, what is cultural attunement and where does cultural attunement in our lives matter?

Michele Crespo-Fierro (08:53):

Cultural attunement is, um, seeking that knowledge about a person's culture. So it's about going beyond what you read, what you experienced in the past and or anything that you've known in the past about the culture and really finding out how does the culture presents for this person who's in front of you and perhaps what other cultures they ascribe to, that are being blended in. And so it's important for us to know that about people, because we should never make an assumption about someone, their culture, their anticipated responses. And if we ever do, because we are human, we need to catch ourselves right away and apologize. And just say, let's start over because we will make a mistake. We'll stumble over ourselves. Of course, trying to remember everything. And it's not about remembering things. It's really about connecting with people in a way that's meaningful for both yourself and the student.

Allison Case (10:16):

Yeah. You're really describing kind of Humanity 101. I feel like how to, how to listen and be with someone.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (10:25):

Yeah. It is not something that you will get right the first time. And it's not something that you will get right. The 50th time, you will always stumble because we are human.

Allison Case (10:37):

Can you talk to us about some of the building blocks to building cultural attunement and inversely, perhaps some of the stumbling blocks.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (10:46):

So, I think that starting out with that curiosity and, and actually setting the stage, sometimes you can get some information from student demographics. If you get a, a student list, I know some places, their names are connected to your

Allison Case (11:04):

Photo roster.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (11:04):

Exactly their ID. If there are some things that maybe you can tell by the the student's picture that can help you to maybe decide when you're sending out a message. Um, so that everyone receives the message at the same time. Sometimes it's something as, um, as, as simple as that being aware of the timing of when you send something, and then there are other ways to connect first day of class, you can do icebreakers, you know, besides going over the syllabus, it's a way that you're connecting with them. And then the peers are connecting with each other and seeing what they have in common, perhaps culturally, as, you know, members of some communities, but definitely in the culture of being a student they'll connect that way. Right. And just kind of taking it from there, creating these opportunities where you connect. And those are also opportunities for you to share a little bit about yourself that yes. You know, I, I know what that's like, you, you need to build that trust from the beginning that we have an open door policy that, you know, I'm here to help you to work with you. So if you need to talk about something, come talk to me. Um, and, and we'll figure this out together.

Allison Case (12:42):

And to your point, no interaction is wasted.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (12:45):

No, none at all. Okay.

Allison Case (12:47):

So Michele, can you talk to me about a timeline, um, as it relates to this semester of when or how we can, um, begin this process of being culturally attuned.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (12:59):

That first class, letting them get to know you and you creating an opportunity to get to know them so you can use holes, which a lot of us use having minute papers are an opportunity to check in. Not only that the students are getting the content, but then any additional information about maybe how the content or even the discussion on how the discussion went. I've always, um, kind of done that with students. Um, I would always ask them to complete, um, some questions. I would hand out some index cards and I would say to them, please write down your name, your email, but I would ask them, what are you interested in? What area do you want to specialize in? What do you want to get out of this class? What is something else that's really important to you or about you that you think I should know?

Allison Case (13:58):

Oh, what a great open ended question.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (14:00):

Always leaving time for questions. You don't want to find yourself getting to the end of your class time and then everybody's running out or signing off. So those opportunities there, when I was talking before about the syllabus, sometimes reviewing due dates is important. Perhaps there are conflicts with due dates and certain holidays. So that's also an opportunity to make adjustments if you can. And of course, it's always easier to do that in the beginning of the semester, as opposed to, you know, a week or so before everything is due, you know, everyone, everyone lives, lives, right. Um, and they are more than just a student. So I'm inviting them to let you know and keep you in the loop. If something is going on that could, um, impact their ability to submit an assignment on time. Another feature that has been useful to me has been the chat functions and these online platforms for classrooms where student can message you individually, if that's what they wish to do, and really just letting them share what it is that experience has been positive and or negative. Let them tell you all of it and work with them to change things in that classroom setting. So whether it's just changing the way that you start the class or your communications being aware of those, those little things, the timing, it maybe that, that welcome email that you sent, which is letting them know that you're open to what their questions are, what their experience is, and that there's a real partnership and that you've created a safe space for them. And you will work very hard to not allow trauma to happen, um, in the classroom or through the syllabus or, or anything like that, that you're looking to, um, have that safe space for them to learn.

Allison Case (16:31):

To learn. Absolutely to really listen and to promise, to learn and respond. Wonderful. Well, Michele, again, thank you so much for your time today and your thoughtful responses. It was just a joy to talk to you and, and dive into the subject. There's so much more to be said, but I'm so glad we had this time together to just begin this conversation.

Michele Crespo-Fierro (16:51):

Thank you. It's been a really great experience to do this. And it's something that is just so important, um, for me as a woman of color, but also as a faculty person and as a parent of a student to just, um, be a part of this conversation. And, and, and that's what it is. It's a conversation that we need to continue to have. So thank you.

Allison Case (17:19):

I loved learning from Michele that we are all culminations of many cultures from our family traditions of our formative years, to the culture of belonging at our present institution. Michele walked us through how we can use information already available to us, to glean information about how we might thoughtfully engage our students, the photo roster, interacting with our students through minute papers and polls and gleaning information from their zoom backgrounds. She shared information about how we can begin to act on the information we glean by sending class communications at a date and time share to be seen by all by setting due dates that are respectful of the culture of the students in our classrooms and by inviting conversations from our students' lives into our very classrooms. As we weave our curriculum with our and our students' cultures together. Now take a listen to my conversation with Angela.

Allison Case (18:13):

My name is Professor Angela Downs, and I'm a Law Professor at UNT Dallas College of Law, where I teach classes in law and also am Assistant Director of Experiential education.

Allison Case (18:27):

Could you just start us very much at square one and talk to us about what is cultural responsiveness?

Angela Downes (18:33):

It's a research based approach that makes meaningful connections between what students learn in the classroom and their cultures, languages and life experiences. So in essence, what we're doing is we're tying all of those things together. As part of the educational experience, there's an interconnectedness and it includes cultural responsiveness, empathy, and self-evaluation. It's a lifelong commitment to self-evaluation. So it's something that you do consistently throughout your life. So, you are at all aspects of your life doing that self-examination, looking inward and really assessing what you're doing. So it requires developing partnerships with people in groups who advocate for others. So really that's aligning yourself with, with other folks who were interested in the same agenda and really seeing and wanting to be about a positive change and having an awareness of one's own cultural identity and views about difference and the ability to learn and build on the various cultural and community norms of students that they're coming in contact with in their classroom.

Allison Case (19:48):

Wonderful.

Angela Downes (19:49):

There's a lot of research about this. Gary Howard of Equity Institute talks about seven principles of culturally responsive teaching and affirming the students in their cultural connections. Um, but by understanding the background and culture of your students, you are really going to help them thrive and think about this. Allison, our brains are wired to make connections. Students bring knowledge to every classroom every day, including their culture, their language, and their life experiences with all of this richness that your students are bringing, why not capitalize on it? It's already there, it's yours for the taking. And when we acknowledged backgrounds as assets and we foster them, we create an environment that is ripe for learning, by looking and connecting the dots and bringing in and tying things in that might be real world for your students. It can really foster growth and foster that creativity and you as a professor and as an educator.

Allison Case (20:52):

Um, do any examples come to mind of ways that you've seen this done well in the classroom?

Angela Downes (20:58):

As a starting point, really take a good, hard look at your syllabus. If you're a law professor, look at your cases and that's something that's very easy. If you're, um, a college professor on the university level or in a professional school or graduate school, what are your readings? Can you incorporate diverse authors? Um, what are the voices that are the practitioners and the folks that are generally held out in your, in your area of study, and is there a way to bring diverse voices into that space? If we think about some of the ways that cultural culture influences our teaching and some of the things that happen a lot of times as instructors, we have things like implicit biases, the unconscious biases that we all have within us, that, that influence our unconscious attitudes or stereotypes. We all have them. You can work to overcome your implicit biases that does take work. Um, Harvard has a, um, implicit bias tests. They've got 200 plus tests that you can take, take the test, and you can recognize what you need to work on, because what we want to do is we want to help students feel valued and empowered. And we can't do that, if we're holding on to things unconscious implicit biases, we've really got to work on those things as instructors.

Allison Case (22:34):

Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that resource with us, be sure to share it in the show notes. So can you talk to me a little bit about how we can begin to see and understand the culture of others, specifically the students in our classroom?

Angela Downes (22:46):

When we talk about cultural competency, it's going to help you and your students understand different perspectives, um, or appreciate others and their strengths. And you need to really think about empathy. Empathy is really one of the greatest tools that you can use in your exploration as a professor, because it's really the ability to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes. That's going to make you more open as a professor. That's going to give you the ability to recognize, um, how you disseminate the information to your students, to ensure that they have, um, an educational experience that will maximize their potential. And so by doing that, you're going to be reflecting on your own identity and experiences and figuring out how those attitudes, are impacting your teaching practices. So again, just kind of doing that self-reflection. And also another thing I want, um, professors and teachers to think about is microaggressions. So it's, it's important that we really start thinking about these things students are saying is that they were overlooked by professors in their classrooms. Um, a lot of the students, as they were talking about their experiences that they were having in different educational institutions, um, was a challenge with microaggressions. Microaggressions are ways in which individuals are either singled out overlooked or ignored or otherwise discounted based on an, on an, on an unchangeable characteristics, such as race or gender. And they take the form of a slight difference in language and gesture treatment, or even a tone of voice. And they might lead to the perception of harassment or discrimination. So one of the examples that, um, students talked about was if they were in a class, if there was a Hispanic or Latin X student in a class, um, they're, they've had experiences where, um, a professor would call them by the wrong name, um, things like that. Sure. So things like that, just knowing about that, being cognizant of that, being aware of that, um, is really important because we don't want to get anything in the way of the teaching that we're doing with our students, because, um, you know, all of us want to do our best for our students.

Allison Case (25:32):

Absolutely. We want to show in our actions, both overt and subtle that our students, all our students matter to us. And it sounds like the work we're called to do is to become aware of the subtle ways that we might unintentionally communicate that we feel differently about one student over another. But the good news that I hear you saying is that once we're aware of ourselves sometimes addressing the microaggressions we unknowingly inflict on our students could be as simple as a seating chart and a conviction to learn our students' names.

Angela Downes (26:04):

Absolutely. Also another step that, um, I'd like for practitioners and professors and teachers to think about is emotional intelligence and emotional intelligence is really a skill set. And it's the ability to monitor one's own, uh, emotions while also looking at the emotions of others, um, to distinguish between the two. So, but distinguishing between your emotions and someone else's emotions, and then using this information to guide your thinking and actions. Hmm. So it's really of thinking about the other guy, um, being, you know, looking outside of yourself and that's what teachers do every day. You're looking outside of yourself because we all really care about the students, um, that come to us in our classroom and really ensuring that we want to do the best thing for them to ensure that they have a very rich educational experience.

Allison Case (27:04):

What are some of the ways that, um, cultural responsiveness influences learning? What are some of the ways that cultural responsiveness impacts the students' ability to learn?

Angela Downes (27:15):

Well, I mean, it's, it's the most important thing that cultural responsiveness does is that it creates, um, of an inclusive environment for students where they are ready to learn where they feel as though they are being heard. Um, and it also creates rigor because there's the expectation that all students are capable of being successful in the classroom. And it's sending a very important message to all of your students that you value your students and that different points of view and cultures are an asset.

Allison Case (27:56):

Whether it's low stakes, formative assessments, you know, the questions we ask students when we're mid lecture, just to gauge student understanding in real time or the high stakes summative assessments, the biggies, our midterms, our final exams, and the items that appear on them in your opinion, does culture affect assessment? And if so, in what ways,

Angela Downes (28:18):

Absolutely. I really do believe that that culture does play a very important role and can affect the outcomes from even low stakes assessments, to even those that are more critical for our students. You know, as we know, culture refers to the beliefs and behaviors of a specific group of people, and then cultural bias is biases that are directed towards those cultural differences.  Culture and background, a lot of times lead to inaccuracies of assessments. And if we look at traditional testing models and even standardized testings that are intended to measure intelligence in general knowledge, they're based on the knowledge and values of a majority group of people I see. So they can create biases against minority groups, and this includes gender race, community status, and persons with different language backgrounds, socioeconomic status and culture. So, you know, we've looked at this problem and although we have alternative assessments that are considered to be more culturally fair, they're still not completely fair. So one of the things that you can look to do is to employ creativity, creativity. I think it's as, as intelligence and those creative assessment measures, um, they can really be used to create a level playing ground. They help reduce bias and they can be added to your traditional test and alternative assessments.

Allison Case (29:58):

I asked Michele her opinion on the effect of culture and assessments in an email following up our conversation together. And I wanted to share her thoughts with you. She shared with me and I quote "culture absolutely has an impact on assessments and it does. So in two ways, culture impacts the way exams are written and culture impacts the way students respond to and interpret the questions as faculty. We bring our knowledge of our specialty area in our planning and teaching of the course and the design of the assessments, including exams. As we discussed before, for some content areas, we are also teaching the culture of the profession and we use our personal experiences often to explain concepts in the classroom. And that will also come into the exam. The result is that assessment can be purposefully based on the culture of the profession, through the content and culture can find its way into the assessment, through the language we use and the scenarios we use as examples for the questions. If our students are following along in class and learning the culture of the profession well, or have similar previous learning and life experiences and vocabulary, then there's not much of a problem. However, if the student has different life experiences or their vocabulary differs, then the student might not understand what is being asked in the question as you had intended. We also need to be aware that many other countries do not use objective tests like multiple choice exams instead use essay based exams. This requires a different way of learning, processing the content and preparing for the exam. Some of our international students may need more time to adjust to this different assessment method to demonstrate their understanding of the material. These experiences are not exclusive to international students. Therefore it's our responsibility as faculty to create assessments that reduce if not eliminate the use of terms and methods that depend upon a shared culture for success, we must test knowledge of content without bias".

Allison Case (31:59):

Let's get back to my conversation with Angela to hear about the role students and all levels of an institution play as participants in these necessary conversations.

Angela Downes (32:09):

Allison, as we're continuing to talk about being culturally responsive, culturally attuned in our institutions, um, one of the things that we've talked about briefly, but I do want to highlight again, is that all levels should be working to develop strategies for their areas of expertise to ensure that, um, you have a higher learning institutions that are really embracing and open to a diverse population of students. But one thing I don't want to be lost, you know, as, as we think about those who need to be participating in this conversation, I don't want us to forget the students. Um, students should have a voice. Um, students are not a monolithic group even within, um, African American, Latin X, um, Asian, um, Native American groups. So we need to hear from them to determine how best to create an environment where they can succeed. So, I think we really need to be deliberate about that, um, and really reach out to students because it's, it's, it's they who are coming to these academic institutions. We want to ensure that we are serving their needs.

Allison Case (33:28):

I love that you hit the nail on the head. That was going to be my last question. As we talk Angela, what is our ask of our students as we purpose to establish cultural responsiveness? What specifically could that look like to do it in a nonthreatening inviting way?

Angela Downes (33:46):

Well, I mean, I think it might be something that might be perceived as threatening because I think perhaps students may have been holding in these feelings for quite some time, so it might come out, um, and what might be perceived as a harsh or aggressive manner, but I think the conversation needs to happen. Um, and I think we need to create a platform for students, whether that is through a listening session, whether that's through speaker series, um, you know, whether it's through a simulated exercise, um, we've done, um, all three of those things at UNT Dallas College of Law, and, um, received very positive feedback from students, creating a space for them and then a lot of different opportunities. But I do want folks to think about this and, and, um, you know, as we're kind of reflecting on this time, um, we know that we're at a very important time in history. It's a, it's a very, not only challenging moment, but it's an opportunity for us. And so I've been thinking a lot. Uh, and one of my thoughts has gone back to, um, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. And the words that he wrote in the Birmingham jail. And one of the things he said, and this is the part that people quote, is "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". But what I like is his next line, and what he says is "we are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny, whatever affects one directly affects us all indirectly". And I think that's what we need to take away from our conversation today, Allison, that we are all tied together. We're all working on this thing and for us to move forward, we've got to have the conversations. We've got to look at our blind spots and we've got to make moves forward.

Allison Case (35:49):

Thank you so, so much Angela, for your time today for your candid answers and for talking about what can be perceived as a challenging topic, but really is just another piece of, um, education, uh, creating an environment that where we can best educate our students and learn ourselves. So thank you so much for your time and your answers. I'd hope listeners have been able to walk away today, feeling empowered, feeling capable and hoping our listeners can feel like cultural responsiveness is within their grasp and very much within the scope of incorporating it within their classrooms. So thank you so much.

Angela Downes (36:30):

Thank you so much, Allison. It's really been a pleasure to speak with you.

Allison Case (36:35):

Powerful stuff. Thank you, Michele. And thank you Angela so much for your time today. I don't know about you, but I walked away with a new appreciation for the quote unquote soft skills of empathy and emotional intelligence based on my conversations with Michele and Angela today beyond making us more self-aware human beings, they are critical tools to allow us to see, really see and hear our students and to make space, to learn about what things are important to them. Don't forget to check out the resources Angela and Michele mentioned with us today. I know I can't wait to head over to Harvard.com and look at some of the implicit bias quizzes Angela shared with us. I know it can be hard to look at ourselves and our own biases. I know absolutely it is true for me, but as educators, our heart is to advocate for promote lead and champion our students. The hard work we talked about today will absolutely equip us in a way that nothing else can to be champions of our students. My thanks to both of my guests today, be sure to tune in next week, as I speak with Lauren Wright, Wiley's Director of Program Strategy, as she talks to me about the hallmarks of a sustainable and robust virtual classroom, as we emerge out of emergency remote teaching and into mid-pandemic pedagogy, see you then.

Joe Taucher (37:48):

Pedagogo. Brought to you by ExamSoft, the assessment software that keeps security and integrity in your exams while providing you actionable data for your outcomes. For all of the toughest testing challenges, ExamSoft has you covered.

Keeley Karsten (38:05):

This podcast was produced by Allison Case and the ExamSoft team. Audio engineering and editing by Adam Karsten and the A2K productions crew, including me Keeley Karsten. This podcast is intended as a public service for entertainment and educational purposes only, and is not a legal interpretation nor a statement of ExamSoft policy, products, or services. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts or guests of this show are their own and do not necessarily the views of ExamSoft or any of its officials, nor does any appearance on this program imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Additionally, reference to any specific product, service, or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ExamSoft. This podcast is the property of ExamSoft Worldwide and is protected under U S and international copyright and trademark laws. No other use, including without limitation, reproduction, retransmission, or editing of this podcast may be made without the prior written permission of exams.